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Post by Ricfly52 on Aug 27, 2004 17:20:55 GMT -7
I really think it would be nice if our two presidential candidates would get off the, I did this, and my pile is bigger than yours, thing, and get on to the issues. What about our open borders? What are they really doing to thwart the terrorist threat? Is anyone doing anything to protect my second, and first amendment rights? Will I be able to drive out into the wild, and walk around on MY public lands? What is the government doing to insure that criminals are behind bars or executed if necessary, so I don’t have to worry about my grandbabies safety? I for one am sick and tired of the Vietnam crap. I don’t give a sh75 who served where or did what! I wanna know what they will do now and in the future! I don’t give a crap about me, I am worried sick about my kids and my grandchildren. What kind manure are they gong to be handed or forced to live with. I know the debates are coming up soon. I would bet everything I own that it will turn into a mud-slinging contest. I am fed up to here with it. I want to know where the candidates stand? How about you?
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Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Aug 27, 2004 18:52:06 GMT -7
I think we pretty much know where they stand by now on the important issues, which is why there so much diffusion with reliving the Vietnam crap. For instance EducationBush - Let the Democrats deal with it Kerry - let the NEA have whatever they want Borders - Bush - more the merrier Kerry - Ditto TaxesBush- Tax cuts are good, esspecially for people who have lots of money. Kerry Tax cuts are bad..unless that costs me votes and then they are only bad for Rich people War on terrorismBush - Lets open another can of whoopass, I brought a whole 6 pack Kerry - War? What war, war is such an insensitive word, lets just call it our appropriate and mulitilateral response or non response as the UN sees fit OutsourcingBush - what outsourcing? we just let them come here for the jobs. Kerry - We should tax the corporations so much for offshore operations that they can't compete globally, that'll keep the jobs home! Gay marriageBush - Not if I can help it Kerry - Well I don't support that, though if thats sounds too homophobic I would support it if the majority of Americans do. Civil rights, constitutional rights and freedomsBush - well the patriot act is a neccessary infringment on some rights for the protection of the citizens, were the govt, you can trust us. Kerry - The patriot act is the absolute intrusion of govt in the peoples business, I would get rid of it we must always protect our rights...except the ones about speech, arms, private property, freedom of reli gio ....
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Post by stetto on Aug 28, 2004 5:14:33 GMT -7
I sat in on a conversation with a variety of local businessmen and friends a few days ago, and of course politics eventually reared it's Abbott & Costello head. There was definitely debate on several issues and of course things got heated, as they usually do...Then someone mentioned how it would be great if for once the parties would put up non-cartoon characters as Presidential candidates. The whole bunch of us agreed and conversation turned to the subject of the American people constantly being forced into a choice of two evils. We came to the conclusion that there's no greater proof that we are being herded like cattle (or sheep, depending on what side of the fence you stand) than the election of high officials.
These people make the decisions that run our lives, determine our collective future, define who we are to the rest of the world, and we're given candidates like this? Instead of complacency there should be outrage and insult. There are practically 300 million of us, and there's something terribly wrong with such a great populace being presented with such despicable examples of "leadership"...
This sentiment was unanimous among 2 bankers, 2 commercial building contractors, a hotel owner, a couple of mall shop owners, a furniture salesman, a sugar beet farmer, a high school english teacher, and 2 house painters (ok, well maybe only one, as my partner is a rabid conservative whose ears tend to melt shut when it comes to reasonable discourse)...If this small group of intelligent, civic minded, sensible people feel this way, how many more of us must there be???
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Post by stetto on Aug 28, 2004 5:19:04 GMT -7
This sentiment was unanimous among 2 bankers, 2 commercial building contractors, a hotel owner, a couple of mall shop owners, a furniture salesman, a sugar beet farmer, a high school english teacher, and 2 house painters... Oh yeah, and my chiropractor... ;D
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Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Aug 28, 2004 7:29:03 GMT -7
Oh I dont know seems to run in cycles. There have been close election before, I don't think a 1% majority is much of a mandate, and then there were elections that were landslides that people ended up luke warm about performance.
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Grnbrt
Story teller
Help help, I'm being......................darn, forgot what I am being!!!!
Posts: 260
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Post by Grnbrt on Aug 28, 2004 13:58:50 GMT -7
Was he there in case a bunch of ya got bent out of shape??? Ah man I'm sorry but just couldn't let it pass!!! I really am getting fed up also with all the damn crap I'm hearing on the stupid tube and want to know what they will do in the future, screw the past!!! You should of heard my Peg last night, WHOA!!!!! did she ever come down on both of them!!!!! Kerry was here in town last night but couldn't go as it by invite only but a bush supporter walked up to a Kerry supporter and said something to him and the guy got him with a round house right cross that would of made Tyson smile!!!! I want the BS to stop, don't care about medals, have more then Kerry, don't care about what fly boy did, past history, I want some good solid answers to the hole our present leader has got us into and I want them NOW!!!!!!
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Post by Ricfly52 on Aug 28, 2004 18:51:24 GMT -7
Setto's comment on voting for the lesser of two evils, is something that I have done a lot in the past. I also hear that from a lot of other folks. And not just for president. It goes the same with senators, represenitives and clear down to local city government. It seems like the ones that are honest folks and run for office never have a chance in hell of making it. But you put a sweet talking silver tounged devil, up for election, and they win every time.
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Post by Cablemender on Aug 28, 2004 19:46:27 GMT -7
Setto's comment on voting for the lesser of two evils, is something that I have done a lot in the past. .. It seems like the ones that are honest folks and run for office never have a chance in hell of making it. But you put a sweet talking silver tounged devil, up for election, and they win every time. I'm sure many will disagree with me on this, but that is why I don't feel voting for a third party candidate with no chance of winning, like Nader, is not a wasted vote. Both parties know full well that only about 2% of thier registered party voters will go for him. If Nader drew 10% of the Republican vote you can bet the national party would be in absolute panic. Yes, it costs you the White House and all that goes with it, but it also makes them get their act together for the next round, and you can bet voter issues will be right up front. The same would hold true for the Dems. The problem is, not many are willing to vote their principles to that degree. If they do lose this election, hopefully the best improvement to their party apparatus they could make would happen.. firing Terry McCauliffe, head of the DNC. My honest opinion of him is that he hurts his party by sticking to junk yard dog politics when that has been shown time and again to cost them voters.
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Post by JohnC on Aug 29, 2004 8:37:42 GMT -7
As useless as my vote may be, I'll probably vote for Congressman Tom Tancredo, from Colorado. I realize he won't get enough votes, but I talked to him more than two years ago when he came to Arizona on a fact-finding trip. He wasn't running for office, in fact there wasn't one single media person around and we met on a ranch so far out in the boonies I almost had to stop and ask for directions to get home!
Tancredo struck me as a person who really cares. He knew he wasn't going to garner any votes from Arizonans, but he was genuinely concerned about the illegal alien problem. He'll get my write-in and from what I'm hearing, quite a few more... not enough to put him in Bush's Casa Blanca, but hopefully enough to rattle some people's confidence and make them think a little bit.
There are others like him out there, but ya sure gotta look hard for them! JohnC
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Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Aug 29, 2004 9:55:54 GMT -7
Now I have a different take on 3rd party influence, there isn't any. Perot drew off a lot of people who wanted responsible spending from the Republicans, they lost the election and did respond in that direction with Gingrichs contract with America, but when the next Presidential election came they had a ligitimate shot at they bring in Bush who has turned out to be the biggest republican spender yet. Where idid they lost the conservative message of smaller govt? The democrats have put up Kerry who just cant seem to come down on the the liberal side and is part of the rich establishment that Nader seems to dislikes. So where are either side trying to bring in their base? They're not, instead they seem to be trying to draw off moderate swing voters believeing that the untapped resource of voters.
I have talked a lot with Libertarians and why they are voting 3rd party. Basically it seems most of them are voting "their concience" while completely ignoring the consequences of doing so. They say they feel good about it and complain that "if every would vote that way..", but that's just it, everyone doesn't and the ones they vote for never get into power to make change. An example of this is there are some, like Ron Paul and Tancredo who are in the Republican fold but do not follow blindly along with every partisan decree, the difference they make is probably small, but is far more difference than those who never get into office at all.
The major parties really dont seem to listen to their base, despite the lip service.
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Post by Ricfly52 on Aug 29, 2004 17:38:59 GMT -7
I really don't give a flying "F" about a third party. What are the two party candidates going to do. Third partys right now today ain't gonna do shi#. Eric K. believes they have it all mapped out. But Eric, you must know both partys are lying idiots. I call them idiots, because they think the voting public are idiots. Not so! ;D Those of us that do vote, have to at least forgo a good nite drunk to make it to the polls. Will John Kerry do the things he touts? Hell, if I knew he would do that, I might even vote for him. Will GWB do what he touts? If he would, I will vote for him. But they are both liars. They will both fool us all, and call it politics!@
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Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Aug 29, 2004 20:39:41 GMT -7
Heh, I don't know so much if they have it mapped out, I am just giving my impression of what they have done, never mind what they have said.
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