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Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Aug 18, 2004 18:30:46 GMT -7
..as long as its isn't bush doing it.  Seriously how can Kerry and the Democrats keep a straight face with this stuff. It seems to me that bringing home troops stationed to fight an enemy that no longer exists is a good thing, esspecially considering what area of the globe we have been doing all the fighting in the last 10 years or more. A realignment of assets to reflect our present national security priorities instead of continuing a coldwar stance is long over due. |
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Post by RetNavySuppo on Aug 18, 2004 20:39:17 GMT -7
Eric-K,
Bringing home troops from Europe - good idea. After all, what are we protecting the Europeans from?
Bringing home troops from South Korea - bad idea. As long as we keep poking that junkyard dog in North Korea in the eye, perhaps it might be a good idea to leave troops there to back up our lack of diplomatic skills.
Bringing home troops from Japan - iffy. See above.
Your last sentence speaks volumes and that isn't going to happen on GWB's watch. To realign our forces to meet current and foreseeable threats requires that troops and facilities be positioned to be able to quickly respond to trouble spots. We have built up facilities in Qatar and Singapore which will come in handy if we withdraw from Japan and Korea and given the growing unreliabilty of our "allies", Saudia Arabia and Kuwait, now that Saddam is gone. However, these are not on the scale that would support a major theater conflict.
Now the other part of the equation is where we are really lacking. We lack sufficient air and sea transport assets to get large numbers of troops and their equipment to trouble spots quickly. Look at both Gulf Wars. Both times, it took us months to get enough troops and equipment to the general area to be ready to rumble. You'd think we would have learned our lessons from the first Gulf War. We better hope the next "adventure" has plenty of leadtime as well AND that there is a friendly staging area nearby. After all, even though the Navy and Marines (America's 9-1-1 force, i.e., the first responders) don't suffer from these limitations, in a major conflict they would welcome the Army and Air Force straggling in sometime to help - and the sooner the better.
None of these problems have short-term solutions. It is going to take more than one President's administration to do it.
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Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Aug 19, 2004 6:22:59 GMT -7
The bulk is being removed from Germany. Japan is neither good or bad IMO. Korea is too in some ways, its not good to give NK ideas we are weaking defense, but SK does seem to have a problem with us being there. Of course there is the money component to it, the govts want us there because we pay good rent. The people of those countries however have national pastimes of hating America.
There are 2 different postures and strategy for defence and offence. Military doctrine says it takes 3 (maybe more I can't remember off hand) times as many troops & equipment to attack as it does to defend. A serious defense the way our military is made up is dependant upon air supremecy, ground forces are supposed to slow the advance while air power pound the attacking forces to submission, in theory anyway. Naval air power can be on station within a couple days. Airforce can be in place, in strength within a couple weeks in most parts of the world. So the only time we would need to build up ground strength is to go on the offensive. The 1st gulf war we were"rumbling" within a week of the invasion, we didn't go on the offensive for months. Even in WW2 it took over a year to prepare for D-day.
So with that in mind, what do you think the chances are this country will invade another country in the near future? I would say close to nil, unless provoked seriously.
Anyway, you are right, it will take more than one administration to shift focus, but it is a start.
I have my own tin foil hat theory about No. Korea, maybe Bush is trying to draw NK to action subtley so they can be neutralized with out the effort and repercussion of invasion on intel evidence of them as imminent threat. That would seem incredibly stupid to do considering how over extended the military is. Unless there is something we don't know.
Now all that aside, I just can't abide the hypocracy from the Democrats on this, they will not support anything this adminstration does even if it's what they say they want.
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Post by Ricfly52 on Aug 19, 2004 17:33:38 GMT -7
I have a Son that is stationed on Okinawa with the Marine Corp. Now I have no idea how many troops are there. But lets say half of them come home. My son has to stay there. Ok, now North Korea goes haywire! Now my son has to go fight with half the strength he had befoe the Bush pull out! This is the kinda shi! that does not make me feel warm and fuzzy!  But I damn sure ain't gonna want my Son, under the command of a left wing, shaky hand, self promoting, liying idiot, like John Kerry! Someone come up with a good canditit that can really be honest and get the job done and I'll vote for him(her). |
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Festus
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Village Idiot
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Post by Festus on Aug 20, 2004 9:20:26 GMT -7
Honestly, why do we need troups anywhere abroad? The days of having to be the 'world's watchdog' are over. If other country's people want to kill each other off...let them! ...the world is over-populated as is! We have plenty of problems right here in the USA without having to be worried with other countries lack of concern for their own problems. The US's budget is beyond 'out of control'...why keep needlessly spending even MORE money on areas of the world where we are not appreciated/wanted? I don't want the 'line of crap' excuse about protecting our economic or energy concerns either...that simply doesn't fly IMO. Bring ALL of our troups home! Let the rest of the world fix their own problems with THEIR money/manpower instead of MY money and our manpower.
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Post by JohnC on Aug 20, 2004 14:14:24 GMT -7
I'm between a rock and a hard place on this...
On one hand I agree that I'm tired of seeing our troops mauled, cursed and murdered. I also agree that we sure could use them along our borders to keep the bad guys out. They're being used as the world's policemen, why not bring them back and let 'em do it here where they'd be welcome.
On the other hand, after watching the blunders in troop movements in Gulf One and Two, and understanding how much it costs to move a large "Retaliation Force" - if there really is such a thing, I wonder if maybe we shouldn't keep our best trained warriors in forward areas.
However, the idea of relocating them all to 5 or so large bases around the world as someone suggested (not here) is not, in my opinion, a good idea at all. JohnC
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Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Aug 20, 2004 14:27:32 GMT -7
If I knew that we would be left alone for ever by "minding our own business" I would be a isolationist too. But unfortunately there is such a thing as keeping involved to protect out interests. It isn't just about us making sure we get oil, its about the influence that is present there. If we left all of the middle east and got our oil elsewhere it would not bring peace to them or us, Oil is money, money is power if it isn't us trying to control it, it's someone else like maybe muslim extremists or other foreign powers like China.
IMO if all you want is to get the target off your back simply have the USA become a 2nd or 3rd world nation. We can get all our jobs back if we are all willing to work for 20 bucks a day, we can cease to use oil if we all give up our cars.
Speaking of troops in Korea, there are 37000 there, if he maoves out 12000 like I read, thats a significant reduction in strength there. However I don't know how much that matters if 200000 NK soldiers come across. 15k, 37k or 57k (not counting SK forces) it will be a retreat until a counter force is landed.
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Post by Ricfly52 on Aug 20, 2004 16:32:32 GMT -7
(Bringing home troops from South Korea - bad idea. As long as we keep poking that junkyard dog in North Korea in the eye, perhaps it might be a good idea to leave troops there to back up our lack of diplomatic skills.) I so much agree with that, RNS. Maybe I am influenced a bit on that because my Son is a Marine stationed on Okinawa. He would be one of the first ones to be on line, if the nips went haywire. The big picture is, that taking troops out of Korea is a very bad mistake! It could be our undoing!  |
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But I damn sure ain't gonna want my Son, under the command of a left wing, shaky hand, self promoting, liying idiot, like John Kerry! Someone come up with a good canditit that can really be honest and get the job done and I'll vote for him(her).
