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Post by jj5167 on Dec 30, 2004 13:25:31 GMT -7
After many years, there is now a possible proposal to change the Fox .35 in NW Sport Race to the LA .25. The .35 is also used in other parts of the Country in various forms of racing,Foxberg for example. What are your feelings on this?  |
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Post by tperry2054 on Dec 30, 2004 17:53:10 GMT -7
I'm not opposed to change if I see a good reason for it. In this case I don't. The Fox has been around forever and is still manufactured. A used Fox will not burden anyone cost wise. The OS is OK, but I think the Fox will outlast it if used with the proper fuel. Start another Race for the .25s.
Tight lines,
Tom
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Post by peabody on Dec 31, 2004 8:19:47 GMT -7
One of the challenges of racing is getting the hot engines to restart....and I believe that Foxes offer a whole lot more challenge than LA's ....
I kinda think that an LA would take a great deal of challenge from the event, and that it would then closely resemble Clown Racing?
Just my thoughts....
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Post by jimthomerson on Dec 31, 2004 15:53:43 GMT -7
I don't race anymore; my knees tell me my pitting days are over. As I understand it, the purpose of Fox racing was to make successful racing available to people who are not experienced racers. If so, specifying an engine which is not easy to hot restart was dumb from the gitgo. This is not how to get new racers to the point of running clean races before they get frustrated and quit. I'm not involved, so you can ignore me if you wish.
Jim
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Post by drolley on Dec 31, 2004 20:20:17 GMT -7
You may want to check the proposal. I don't think it is to replace the Fox with the OS engine. Given what is happening in other parts of the country, I'd guess that the proposal is to allow the OS engines in addition to the Fox engine.
The folks in the LA area have been experimenting with using the OS 25s on their Fox Racers. In some cases, they have been racing together. The primary reason is the OS engines are about as available as the Foxes and people like them.
The NCLRA has decided to have LA and Fox racing at the NATS in 2005. Basically they will be run together and the intention is to gather data to determine what is the appropriate response to the event change and what, if any, new rules need to put in place to manage parity between the two engine types. (obviously a bunch of detail was left out of that description)
Dave
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Post by jehold66203 on Jan 1, 2005 8:48:46 GMT -7
Now what happens when Fox finds out and drops the awards they used to provide for the event? In our area when they started letting in the other Goldberg planes to compete with the Shoestring, the racing went down hill as far as attendance. -DOC
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Post by jj5167 on Jan 1, 2005 12:02:25 GMT -7
Dave, I was unaware of a proposal to possibly change engines. You must realize I have let my membership in the national racing SIG elapse. Here in the NW (the birthplace of sport racing) only Dan Rutherford is making the suggestion to change. In a rather informal poll I took there does not seem to be an overwhelming approval of a change as yet.
There are at least 5 new sport racing teams that are just now developing locally and there is a bit of consternation what with just having orderd new Fox .35's for the event. Hopefully it will take some time to feel out any changes.
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Post by johnt4051 on Jan 2, 2005 0:26:02 GMT -7
Persons interested in this topic might want to review the discussion that has occurred on the NCLRA message board, url below: forums.delphiforums.com/CLRacingAs I understand it, the LA engine is being experimented with in some parts of the country and will be tried at the Nats next year. Check your local listings for what's being done in your area. Here in the Northwest, there has been a suggestion made but no formal plan to make any change that I have heard of. In the region, we have a semi-formal rules process, and nothing is on the table as a proposal at this time. It is possible that someone may want to organize some experimentation along these lines based on the suggestion that has been made, but I have not heard of it. We've been successful with the Fox for more than 20 years, and, yes, it will restart.  As I said, check out the NCLRA site for lots of info. --john thompson |
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Post by drolley on Jan 3, 2005 10:56:01 GMT -7
The real question that needs to be answered for any rules proposal is: "What problem is going to be solved by this change?"
If participation is good, folks are enjoying the event, and the equipment is readily available, what is the pressing need for change?
For some reason whatever happens at the national level seems to unduly affect local contests. Take a look at Mouse Racing. There are only about 4 of the custom, high performance reed valve engines in the whole country, yet I've had folks tell me they are dropping the event because they can't compete. Huh? They will never fly against one of those engines! So if the problem doesn't exist at your local or regional level competitions, "No, we don't need to make that change" is a perfectly good answer.
BTW, the only Fox I'm willing to flog is the 15 schnurle used in the 1 oz sport Goodyear event in Doc's part of the country (Eastern Kansas).
Dave
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Post by n42222 on Jan 4, 2005 9:55:10 GMT -7
I'll give it another shot. I have a contrary opinion, namely, Fox 35s are not hard to hot start. It takes a little while to figure it out, but Phil Dunlap, Bill Bischoff, Mike Greb, Marvin Denny- they never have a problem in our "Goldberg" races. I'm told that some years back, just about everyone had a Goldberg/Fox35 plane at the contests and there was enough entries to get quite a few "four up" heats. The planes were slow enough for anyone to fly and the races were won or lost in the pitting. I'd enjoy getting back to that! Best regards, dale gleason And Dave- do you "flog" or "fly" the Fox15? I think the're great little motors for Sport Goodyear.
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Post by drolley on Jan 4, 2005 18:29:23 GMT -7
Hi Dale,
Charlie flies, I flip. I'll even flip for you! Especially if you land in my pitting area! Just wait until I release Charlie's model before you come in... ;D
Racing with a Fox 35 Stunt never caught my fancy. Even if they allow the OS 25 in the event, I probably won't build for it. But I'll pit for anyone that asks. I've got enough to try to keep up with between 1/2A Mouse (both classes), Sport Goodyear, F2C, and F2CN.
BTW, I think Sport Goodyear with the Fox 15 on 52 feet lines and a 1 oz tank is a ball!
later,
Dave
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Post by n42222 on Jan 4, 2005 21:48:52 GMT -7
I have to throw in a plug for my pit man, Phil Dunlap. We started Sport Goodyear with a Lil Gem that I built and it was the dog of all dogs. "Raced" it for years and never came close. Then I built a Mike Greb "Polecat" and Phil blueprinted a Fox15 and we won every time I didn't torque roll on takeoff. Well, a 2nd at Wichita once, but that motor on that plane was unbeatable. We got a crack in the piston and decided to go that last race and it held up, but Russ Green, Mike Greb and Bill Bischoff (and Gene Hempel) were getting faster all the time. Now we've got to get another motor on line, but so far we're still a full second off the one that did so well for almost five years. Yes, it's a great little event. Best regards, dale gleason
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Post by exrafbod on Jan 4, 2005 22:49:37 GMT -7
Yeah to wot peabody said!
Our club tried a couple of Fox based races last year and some fun was had by all who took part. Yes the Fox has its quirks and yes the OS LA is, I believe, a better-behaved engine but the hot restart of Fox just added to the fun of it all.
For those who have the urge to drop the Fox then dash out en masse to purchase and re-engine with an LA there's the added expense though happily OS LAs are not that dear. The hot starting characteristics of the Fox are then edited out of the race/chance equation and the focus turns to just counting laps, running against the stopwatch and not colliding with anyone.
Less fun I think.
The element of luck rather than skill can often decide 'the winner' of such events.
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Post by n42222 on Jan 5, 2005 10:43:57 GMT -7
An important thing to consider in starting a Fox35 "hot" is to not let it get "hot" in the first place. It has to be broken in thoroughly, so it won't get hot beyond its "starting tolerance temperature". Now theres a new term- feel free to use it! Don't ask more than it's capable of giving- don't needle it so lean or use too large a prop that it begins climbing to its "STT". (Give up laps to insure quick start). Bring it into the pits quickly as possible so it doesn't cool too much. This is the pilot's job, and tough without a shut-off. So I employ a 2 oz. Higley Hub to insure enough inertia to get it to the pits quickly. Phil fills (redundant) quickly and firmly to get a strong prime. He starts flipping like crazy so as to start up before the meth vaporizes, leaving an oil-soaked plug coil. Hot battery completes the regimen. Best regards, dale gleason
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Post by tperry2054 on Jan 5, 2005 12:06:05 GMT -7
Does anyone still racing Fox engines use my old trick?
I used to have two fuel bulbs, one to hose off the engine and cool it and another to fuel it.
Are hot gloves still being used?
Tight lines,
Tom Perry
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Post by n42222 on Jan 5, 2005 15:20:34 GMT -7
The "Goldberg" racing I'm familiar with, Tx,Ok,Ks,La area does not allow hot gloves. Neither does "Sport Goodyear", also called Class II Goodyear. ClassI Goodyear, Quickie Rat, Slow Rat of course, do. The "Foxberg" at the Nats got away from the simple Ringmaster/Goldberg/Skyray type ship and the top flyers use a "combat'' type plane that is all business. NCLRA web site has more info. I've seen flyers douse their motors with fuel and some use water. After all the blueprinting Phil does on our motors, I think he wouldn't like "dousing" for fear of warping a cylinder or case. Maybe he will jump in here. He is good with motors. Best regards, dale gleason
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PhilC
New arrival
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Post by PhilC on Jan 7, 2005 19:03:29 GMT -7
We tried this at a couple of races last year. The LA 25 with the stock needle and the current .262 venturi ran right in the middle of the pack. Hot starting was about equal to the Fox 35's, mostly depends on your technique.
the LA is a LOT smoother and doesn't require a heavily built plane to survive the motor. As a result, they can also be used as a sport stunter(Goldberg planes) with just a tank change.
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Post by jehold66203 on Jan 12, 2005 9:04:53 GMT -7
It depends on the Fox 35 I have in the plane. Some I just douse with fuel after filling tank. Some just start flipping and get out of the road. Have had one flip starts several times. Ask Dale about the year we were swapping tanks to get mileage and/or pit stops. Dallas requires pit stops during 140 lap race. Had to tip plane on nose to fill tank as somehow we were getting over 40 laps on 1 ounce of fuel. By the way JJ got first that year, JJ flying, Melvin flipping prop and me on the battery. -DOC
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