Competitior licenses from the AMA?

[troublesome]

I commend to your attention Steve Kauluf's comments on possible AMA competition licenses, page 160, June 2005 Model Aviation.

Jim

[jj5167]

I read the article and found it to be most interesting. There is a definate trend in the columns of AMA personal. It would appear that there will be a new push to enrole the thousands of "park" type modelers into the AMA. They will of course be offered some smaller enrollment fee as an insentive.
Those AMA members that still compete in the established competition will and are becoming a small minority of total membership and will then be offered a competition license. Herein lays the kicker. COST! Indoor competitors will get a pricebreak because of not really needing insurance , but the rest of the competitors, FF CL and RC wil have the honor of getting their "Passport" license at an increased cost. Am I wrong? Perhaps, but then I was just one of 1000 that didn't vote NO on the recent PAMPA voting.
JJ

[GCB]

Chances of getting a license that can be used as an actual passport to go between countries is very slim. The process and paperwork can be very tricky. Case in point. I got a passport a few months ago. They would not accept a birth registration certificate as proof of citizenship. This same birth registration had been used to sign up for the draft (1960), join the Navy, and apply for social security...but not good enough for a passport. I had to send for an official birth certificate from my home state. I doubt that they would allow AMA any kind of authority.
To differentiate competitors from non-competitors does not make sense to me. What of the guy who decides to compete at a local contest once or twice? Does he have to upgrade to a competitor license at the field? What about a competitor who has to miss a season...does he get downgraded to sport. From the article, perhaps AMA has to monitor your competition status. Sounds like a paper trail generating mill that will require higher fees to me...but that is just one opinion.
I'm agin it!

George

[jj5167]

George, I have had no trouble getting a passport two years ago, neither has my wife and grandaughter. Have times changes in the last 15 months?

I also sense that what the article was leadimng to was a method of catauorizing one's competition ability. Does this mean that at the future Nats only those ranked high enough will be able to compete in, let us say a CL racing event? As it is now, an AMA Nats is the only national championship I am aware of that allows anyone to just pay and enter without some sort of regional standing or competition win or high placing.

If one reads MA often enough one can find a great many letters about how few really like the "Nats Issue" of MA.
Perhaps this whole thread in the article is just a portent of BIG future changes in AMA headquarters thinking.

In closing, let me state that I am against any such change in license arangements, with he following difference. I think indoor free flight should not have to have AMA insurance.
JJ

[persistant]

I think getting a passport has tightened up recently. Mine expires this year, so I'll find out.

The problem I see with licenses or tiered membership is that is enhances divisions among modelers, and restricts the ability of a modeler to enjoy various disciplines. I was flying indoir handlaunch glider, outdoor handlaunch glider, slow rat, goodyear, and power FF all at the same time, for example

Jim Thomerson

[GCB]

JJ,
If you have a birth certificate with a raised stamp on it you should not have trouble. I was issued a "Birth Registration" that was only available in some states for a few years (~1940-1943). The state created a "standard" one for me and I had no further trouble. I understand they are going to switch to a newer type with fingerprints or some other form of ID (perhaps a magnetic strip?).
I think the magazine article was a pipe dream merely to get all countries to stamp where you have competed. Probably just a "bragging rights" thing.

Jim, My wife had an expired passport. I think they ask you that on the application.

George

[jehold66203]

Go back and reread the article. I beleive he is referring to the many RC events around the country. He is an RC Helicoptor competitor. What does he know about CL & FF. DOC Holliday

[GCB]

To quote part of the second paragraph, "...For those competing on the international level, maybe a passport-type license that opens to reveal multiple years of FAI Sporting License Stamps and participation in international competition..."

I would think that if this was ever used, a SIG would provide the stamps for US participants. This is not something that the AMA could apply without running it through the FAI since the FAI has responsibility for international competition.

George

[nils]

I looked into this a little. Here is my correspondence with Mr. Kaluf. Read from bottom to top for the emails to be in order:

.........................................................................................

Nils, this program is not developed in any manner as yet so I cannot give you any promises. I'm simply trying to gather information from the membership to see what they would like, if it's a good idea/bad idea and so on. It may never happen, it may happen but be totally different that my concept of it. Again, I'm just trying to gather information.

Thanks again for your input, I do appreciate it. Good luck at the NW Regional.

Steve Kaluf
Technical Director



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From: Nils [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 2:49 PM
To: Steve Kaluf
Subject: Re: Competition License


Hi Steve,

Thank you for your reply.
Perhaps I read too much into the "...extensive rework of the way we do competitions." part. That made me a little skittish. If CLPA will not be affected that's good, I like CLPA fine the way it is.
Now if I understand you correctly, you're saying the "Competition License" will be absolutely FREE for the asking? Including pictures, passport type folders & all? Well, ok, if you can do that I have no objection. I guess I'm just not used to getting a "free lunch". I might be a cynic but I can't recall ever getting any kind of "license" that didn't cost me something.
I've downloaded & printed out the new CLPA rules & I understand that this new procedure will save the AMA money, but personally I'd still like to be able to have a complete rule book in my flight box. I guess I'm old fashioned
I do still think competition clinics should be available to everyone though.
I'm off to Albany Oregon tomorrow for the NW CL Regionals, I hope you have something fun to do this weekend as well!

Thanks again for the reply,

Nils







----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Kaluf
To: Nils
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Competition License


Dear Nils,

You may have missed some of my main points regarding a competition license. The main reason for doing this would be to do a better job of recognizing competition pilots, and provide some additional benefits to the competitive pilot. In efforts to provide additional value to those holding the license I suggested a few things that we might consider providing. Tracking of points is one of those. In CLPA you don't do that so it would not affect you. However in RC Aerobatics they do. They can point out in a class and the rules mandate a move to the next higher class. The same is true for RC helicopter. If the rules do not require mandatory advancement this program would not change that. This program would in no way change the event rules. My concept has nothing to do with money either.

I might mention the rulebook is still free, it is just available differently. I do understand your need/want for a printed copy. However the numbers we had to print and the number we distributed was a big problem. The main reason for the change is to provide a constantly up to date rule book. The web version gives us the ability to do this.

Thanks very much for your comments. I hope to get some more on this issue prior to moving forward or deciding against the program.

Sincerely,

Steve Kaluf
Technical Director



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From: Nils [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:35 PM
To: Steve Kaluf
Subject: Competition License


Hello Mr. Kaluf,

I read your piece on Competition Licenses. Since you asked for comments I thought I should share mine with you.
I fly CLPA & just moved to Expert. I moved because I wanted to, not because the AMA told me to. I don't like the government telling me what to do & I don't want the AMA telling me what to do either. I changed my competition class when *I* felt I was ready, not when some bureaucrat in Indiana decided I was ready. (Btw, I'm going to get waxed in Expert at the NW Regionals this weekend but that's OK, I'm tired of flying Advanced.)
I didn't like it when AMA raised the price of membership while cutting benefits (no more free AMA rulebook for instance). I didn't like it when they changed the rules to cut the price of membership in half for CD'ing one contest either (instead of giving a free membership for that year).
I also don't like the fact that the only way I can get the current rules is by downloading them & printing them out before I can CD a contest. I LIKED the rulebook!
Getting my CD ticket would have been much more difficult if I had to surf through a bunch of .pdf files looking up all the facts needed to get it. The book was *MUCH* better, imo. I could take it with me to study when I had some time during the day. Can't do that with a computer. Besides, a lot of people still aren't computer literate.
Not a big deal for me now since I'm already a CD, but it will make it a lot more difficult for future wannabe CD's. I see this as a step in the wrong direction.
Also, I'm certain this "license" would be another way to squeeze more money out of me & all other competition fliers. Anything "special" is going to cost more & from what I've been seeing the AMA certainly isn't going to offer something "special" at no additional cost. With the picture ID, passport-type license, stamps & assorted incidentals, more AMA staff is going to be required to handle all the paperwork & so forth & they aren't going to work for free.
Another thing- why should competition clinics only be available for competitors holding a Special License? All that would do is make getting started in competition even more difficult than it already is. I thought the AMA was supposed to PROMOTE competition? I see this as another step in the wrong direction.
I don't need or want any "special recognition" either. I have plenty of dust-catcher trophies, that's enough special recognition. In short, sorry, but I don't like anything about the whole Competition License idea.
On the other hand, I *do* like the AMA in general & especially Model Aviation. I think you folks have been doing a very good job of covering all the various model aircraft disciplines. Although my only competition interest is in CLPA, as a lifelong modeler I also enjoy my R/C airplanes, rubber FF's & HLG's so I read almost the entire magazine.
I also appreciate the AMA counting the votes for PAMPA's proposed bylaw changes.


Thanks for asking for input on this,

Nils Norling
AMA 5684

[jimbo]

Good for you Nils. I think the AMA is moving in the direction of becoming less and less supportive of competition. A large number of AMA members are from disinterested to against comptition, and the AMA's major concern at the moment is how to get the jillions of park fliers on board so that the AMA can actually claim to govern model aviation in the USA.

JIm

[jj5167]

Re-read this months report from the Prez. As I read it it looks like the advertisers and nay to the Nats issue guys will be having their way. There it is, the "NO SPECIAL NATS ISSUE" will now be put into effect. For us with computers we will get daily updates, those without computers more or less don't count, probably because they don't fly "parkers" or best bet don't fit the demographics the advertisers require.
JJ