Vegas Nutjob

[HiTemp]

Yet another in a string of behavior drug related incidents. But, as always, it's the guns fault. Not just the ones that were used, all of them, apparently for associating with the guns responsible for the violence.

Since I first heard about bump stocks years ago, I always thought it would be a matter of time before some fool used one where he shouldn't and ended up alerting the anti-gun folks (who apparently had no clue these existed... even the ones in Congress) to the fact they were out there available to anyone for a small price. I only know 4 people who actually own one, and of those 3 none of them have them currently mounted on any gun. They got one, mounted it up, burned through a crap load of ammo to rival an episode of "The Untouchables," then the thrill was gone. Aside from the huge ammo drain, they all basically said, "what's the point? You can't hit squat with it unless you're willing to devote time and a LOT of ammo. If I wanted to shoot that poorly I could do that by simply taking off my sights and using the "point in the general direction" method.

To which I wholeheartedly agree.

I think those stocks are useless save scaring the crap out of someone in the dark. My opinion on them wouldn't mean I'd push for a ban on them, though. I kind of view them like I do derringer type guns... if someone wants that, great, let them, but they're not on my shopping list.

The story has continued for days now with LE seemingly glued to the idea that they must find some plausible motive for the shooting. Fool's errand, IMHO. I don't care why he did what he did; I only care that he ended up on a slab where he belonged and in this case did a civic duty by not making the LVPD have to pay for the bullets.

[HiTemp]

And today another mow-down of pedestrians in London.

Since they have already taken the guns, it's time for them to get serious about "common sense truck controls."

[HiTemp]

Now it's a car in London, not a truck. Traffic accident, not a terrorist attack. Tomorrow it will be the fault of white privilege or maybe just good ol' fashioned motor vehicle racism. Cue the Twilight Zone theme.

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

I agree, I always thought bump stocks were stupid as well, but its the right of people to be stupid unless that stupidity infringes on the rights or harms someone else. There is probably half a dozen different ways to emulate full auto, some already illegal, and it won't stop anyone from doing it if its on their mind and heart to kill people. 87 people died and 400+ hurt earlier this year in France from a trash truck, about 100 people die everyday in this country due to vehicle accidents. If the same people calling for gun control treated that the same there would be calls for all vehicles governed to 20 mph, restrictions where they could be used at all along with all sorts of new regulation. Its not about the deaths or carnage, its about fear, and no one make good decisions when they are angry or afraid.

Actually I do care why he did it though, it may be insight to why others act with violence. What kind of reasoning, even if irrational, what would bring someone to that point that one day they decide to become a mass murderer, what incentive was there for him. And it may be we won't know, maybe it was just a thrill killing. But whatever the reason or lack of, its irrelevant to the idea of prohibiting anything will stop this from happening again, murder is already prohibited. And they sure as hell won't give our guns back when the next yahoo blows up, crashes or burns something killing multiple people.

[HiTemp]

No they sure won't. I think all the politicians jumped all over the bump fire stock thing because it was low hanging fruit. Many of them, in interviews, openly admitted they'd never heard of these things before. Well, of course not, they live in their little DC bubble and wouldn't know a muzzle from a moose. Was only a few months ago one of the leading political rocket scientists was questioned about being able to buy a rifle barrel online with no background check. Said something like, "I don't think that's the case because you have to have a background check if buying a part that can be made into a working firearm."

These are the people writing our laws... absolutely no idea what's in them.

Concerning the motive for the Vegas guy, while it might be enlightening to know his reasons, those reasons would only be used as some kind of obstacle by people intent on reducing gun ownership. For instance, if they suddenly found a note that said he did it because he hated C/W music, now the eye of suspicion falls on everyone else who is not a fan. If he said he did it to protest some politician's actions, then now we can expect some kind of political litmus test to be explored before approving gun sales.

There is lots of speculation about whether this guy planned to leave after causing carnage. I doubt it. The room was easily traceable to him, being in his gf's name while she's out of country. So where's he going to go where he's not going to be priority #1 for the people who hunt down fugitives? I think it's far more believable to think he was going to end it there. The warning cameras and such he rigged outside his door would have been worthless for escaping. By the time the cops were there, he had no way out and no way to escape being identified as the shooter. I think the camera was so he knew when he had to act before they came in and shot him or, worse yet, took him into custody.

I'd rather not know what made a mental case fall off his cliff. What I would like to know is what do the hotel/casino security cameras reveal other than him losing $100K to a video poker machine? How many times did he go in and out? Carrying what? I'm starting to think this guy made several trips with large bags and no one in the hotel picked up on it. They're staying silent because they know there is a flock of PI lawyers circling the parking lot just waiting for a reason to find a reason that a big hotel/casino was negligent.

This past summer I noticed that the cops were a lot different in their security approach for outdoor events. Typically, they'd have a couple cars and an ambulance near the entrance, then a few foot patrols waling about. This year they must have parked a dozen "unmarked" vehicles all over the place, foot patrols were not random but stationary and there were many more of them. Dogs present. This was especially true at events where fireworks played some part. At the beach events, beach concerts, etc. where there's only two really big parking lots available, they put up exit checkpoints as soon as cars began arriving and kept them up for an hour or more after the event ended. They never did this before, and I'm wondering if these are suggestions from DHS or what. They are getting like the airport without a TSA checkpoint for carry-on items.

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

Yeah, I don't see the jump to the conclusion that because he had cameras set up, he was planning an escape, seems more likely to me he was intending to fight it out when they came for him.

He had 20lbs of tannerite in the car and more guns, but really doesn't mean anything besides he had ideas to inflict more damage that he never carried out. Its kind of hard to assign reasonable thinking to someone who planned a mass murder, what may seem like linear thinking for us was probably not the same for him and vice versa.

I do see how he got it all in without anyone taking notice, he stayed of over several days, most of the guns could be broken down to fit in smaller bags or suit cases, its not like he had to drag a dozen a rifle cases around or do it all in one day.

Of course the standard reaction anymore is to assume more power, and take away more freedom and still be just as vulnerable to someone who is willing to die to kill you.

[HiTemp]

I know this is just a WAG but I'm beginning to believe the attack on the concertgoers was some sort of "Plan B." According to the revised timeline, this guy was interrupted while trying to drill holes in the wall that went from his suite into the hallway. Apparently the hotel security guy happened to be up on that floor responding to some sort of alarm from another room, the door open or something like that. While there, he hears drilling noises coming from the shooter's suite and beat on the door to find out WTH is going on in there. The reply was somewhere in the vicinity of 200 rounds fired back through the door, one of which struck the security guy in the leg. Some 7 minutes later is when he opened fire on the crowd.

I think his plan was to make that hallway a fatal funnel using his camera setups and multiple holes through which he could fire and quickly change positions. But it was interrupted by the security guy and he opened fire before he could finish building his multi-points-of-fire trap. I'm thinking he might have intended all along to shoot at the fuel tanks and hopefully erupt them causing a police response into that hallway, then it was hold them off as long as he could until they eventually killed him, which he'd planned all along. When his plan got interrupted, he just snapped and shot at whatever he could until it was clear to him it was over and he ended it himself.

Good gosh the conspiracy things have already started. Gunfire sound comparisons, the missing "13" tattoo, flashes in the windows indicating multiple gunmen, etc. etc. The You Tube conspiracy engine is already fired up.

Are there any grassy knolls in Las Vegas? I've never been there.

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

Yeah, conspiracy theories are flying, and no wander the way they are putting info out and then changing it, local police info isn't jiving with FBI press releases etc and both are different form what the hotel puts out. He bought tracers, he tried to buy them, he never had them? They can't make up their mind. Who is the security guard, and why is he suddenly quiet and gone to ground. Lots of stuff remains unexplained.

For me I look at the pics and people are focused on the blood body posture etc, but for the amount of rds he went through, I don't see many spent mags laying around or much brass either in the pics that were leaked. Could be out of frame, but even using 100rd mags like I saw, there would be several laying around, not stacked up neat against a column and brass everywhere if he was shooting through the door, down the hall and out 2 different windows as well. It just looks awfully clean to me.

So must be a conspiracy.

If its true he had scoped out other venues of crowds, I would say that was probably a main target, and maybe he thought the tanks were gas and not non exploding jet fuel.

[HiTemp]

All I know is if I had millions of dollars, 19 guns at home and another 23 I took on the road with me (along with thousands of rounds of ammo and a big box of tannerite), I wouldn't be sitting in front of a video poker machine taxing my liver. I'd be calling you and requesting clearance to set the HiTemp helo down at the Fubar Heliport and we would take the war to the prairie dogs, bump-fire stocks and all.

Couldn't help but laugh when I read that after posting. I got this mental image of you with some tannerite doing p-dogs like Bill Murray vs. the gopher thing from Caddyshack.

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

Heheh, believe me, we have had the conversation of tannerite dogging and drone hunting many times. Fortunately for them I am too cheap. I agree though, I could find a lot better ways to occupy time and spend money too and still be shooting lots without killing anyone.

[HiTemp]

Oct 13, 2017 20:09:49 GMT -7 Grug - American Neanderthal said:

Heheh, believe me, we have had the conversation of tannerite dogging...

LMAO!!! How much tannerite you figure they'd have to eat before they explode on contact when hit?

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

Heh, I was thinking more like waiting for several to stand near a can of the stuff set on one of their mounds. We could dress it up like a suicide bomber and see how their security works.

[HiTemp]

Container of tannerite with a burqua, remote speaker for yelling Aloha Snackbar... I like it!