|
Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Oct 14, 2015 17:41:32 GMT -7
Yet that is exactly what they want to happen, to criminalize that you should know intent as if you are supposed to be omniscient when you make something. In a sane world they would be laughed off as the idiots they obviously are, in our world they could actually get elected and then proceed to do it.
I heard that gunshops penalty also, I would think there would have to have been something pretty damning, or they had one really bad lawyer. Its just amazing how these gun becomes animated as soon as they reach open air. Maybe I should use that defense and default on all my debt, "Hey, that credit card had a mind of its own"
|
|
|
Post by HiTemp on Oct 15, 2015 9:18:54 GMT -7
You could try that but something tells me that Citibank/BOA/and the rest have much more lobbying power than the NRA ever dreamed of having. Remember, you're dealing with an industry that, when they make a stupid investment or face a big loss, they get politicians to open a money tap to fill the coffers right back up with our money. They might buy the argument that your card did all that purchasing on its own independently of you, however their lawyers will easily make the case that it was your assets' fault for letting the card do it. With the liability falling squarely on your assets, they will have to go in order to satisfy the debt. Would have been better if one of your guns knew what the card was up to; it could have shot the card and prevented the whole mess. I often wonder with all those product warning things... are there really conversations in attorney offices everyday where someone is in for a consultation because they tried to use a power tool in the shower? Or tried to dry the cat in the microwave oven? And are these attorneys turning them away, saying, "You have no case. See, they told you not to do that right here in the product manual and again on the sticker on the door."
|
|
|
Post by HiTemp on Oct 15, 2015 10:09:51 GMT -7
I read this on one of the FL gun forums this morning regarding the gun shop that got sued. Doesn't cite a source for the information but the poster is a firearms instructor that has an extremely good rep for being accurate with his information and careful with his research.
|
|
|
Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Oct 15, 2015 13:22:23 GMT -7
I read they changed the form helping the guy be a straw buyer fill it out falsely. So they probably got what they deserve. It also turns out the same shop had lost the FFL twice before for similar practices. So yes, why are they not in jail?
|
|
|
Post by HiTemp on Oct 15, 2015 19:32:41 GMT -7
That's a damn good question, especially after the first loss of FFL. You'd think the BATFE would be all over them the second time around, with some felony charges to accompany the second FFL suspension. Maybe a better question might be, given they lost their FFL twice, what kind of nitwit at BATFE is allowing them to be reinstated (again) without some kind of solid proof that drastic change is imminent? Why was there no follow-up visits every few weeks to check up on them? Why didn't the BATFE go in there themselves and try a couple straw purchases just to be sure they got their minds right?
There's a gun shop across town I used to do business with but they are so damned fanatical about straw purchases it's like you have to endure an interrogation just trying to buy a gun. I bought a .20 gauge pump over there because they had the best deal around. Wife and I drove over there one Sat. morning and the guy was sure I was buying it for my wife. He's telling me she should fill out the paperwork and I'm saying why, it's MY shotgun, not for her. Was like he wasn't hearing a word I said. Finally my wife says, "Look, if I fill out this 4473 you're talking about and he gets the gun, aren't *I* making a straw purchase?" That shut him up. That was the last time I shopped over there. He has good prices but he's an irritating SOB.
The LGS I do almost all of my business with now is barely a mile away and though the prices are higher, their customer service skills are excellent. One clerk I bought my Shield from remembers me by name every time I go in. I asked them to order me four mags for that pistol and for some reason they ordered five. Had my name on the box and neither of us knew there were 5 mags not 4 in the box until I got home and opened it. Went back and tried to explain but the manager mistook what I was saying - he thought I ordered 5 and only got 4 and was ready to hand me another one. I'm scratching my head wondering if Alan Funt is behind a rack somewhere. When we finally got what happened squared away he ended up thanking me for bringing it back but told me to "hang onto it." Then gave me a box of 9mm Winchester white box for my time and trouble. Dang! $37 magazine AND a free box of practice ammo. So that's why I go there now even though I pay a bit more per purchase on most things.
The Admiral doesn't care for my .20 gauge though she shoots it as well or better than I do. I only have that gun for one purpose, really, and that's home defense in a situation where someone is already inside and we have to hunker down in the bedroom while waiting for the deputies to show up. Between her on her Glock 19 and my .20 gauge with #4 buck rounds, whoever comes through that bedroom door is going to have a very bad day. I don't have kids living at home anymore so I don't have to worry about walls and lines of fire anymore from a defensive position. Drywall is easily replaced. I had flashing lights rigged up to a switch in my previous bedroom that was at the other end of the house and one of these days I'll have to get around to moving them to the new bedroom. They really do disorient you if you walk into the darkened room and they suddenly pop on. It's like you can't even think for more than a second.
|
|
|
Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Oct 16, 2015 6:18:11 GMT -7
And its not even a straw purchase if you are going to buy it and give it to your wife, but these guys are so paranoid about getting called on it, they consider any purchase not for your self for any reason a straw purchase.
|
|
|
Post by HiTemp on Oct 16, 2015 19:41:25 GMT -7
Yeah, exactly. I have never been in a gun shop where there are two people - one buying and the other filling out the 4473. In fact most shops I've been in doing something like that would get you shown to the door right quick. So apparently this particular gun store had a rep for looking the other way when the obvious signs of straw purchase were right in front of them. I've been wondering how someone could go over the cliff like that and still get their FFL back, but as more information comes out it's looking like there is more than one license in the family. Guess when A's license got suspended, B stepped in and took over, that kind of thing. Still makes me wonder why that wasn't a red flag for BATFE and why that didn't cause them to pay a visit more often, perhaps even an undercover one.
|
|
|
Post by Grug - American Neanderthal on Oct 17, 2015 6:03:41 GMT -7
Because they were busy busting a guy for loaning a machine gun out, when it was a technically a malfunctioning rifle, and spent many thousands of dollars and untold man hours to prosecute the guy like he was an illegal arms dealer, or were busy running guns across the border to claim we are sending guns across the border, or were busy sharpening their bureaucratic pencils to rule on what part is legal and what a is not and how a stock is not a stock if its braced on the forearm, you know, more important stuff.
|
|
|
Post by HiTemp on Oct 17, 2015 17:45:42 GMT -7
HA! Yeah, the SIG Stability Brace.. it's not a stock because it wasn't designed to be a stock, however if you do use it as a stock it's still not a stock. It can only be a stock if it was designed to be a stock, which it wasn't. Improper use of a device does not require reclassification nor does it make a pistol become a SBR. Only if you design the same exact rig to BE an SBR is it an SBR.
Yeah, no wonder why that gun shop was far onto the back burner.
|
|