|
|
Post by HB on Jul 30, 2004 4:03:39 GMT -7
From the SS Administration website:
"Is there really a Social Security trust fund?
Yes. Presently, Social Security collects more in taxes than it pays in
benefits. The excess is borrowed by the U.S. Treasury, which in turn issues
special-issue Treasury bonds to Social Security. These bonds totaled $1.5
trillion at the beginning of 2004, and Social Security receives more than $80
billion annually in interest from them. However, Social Security is still
basically a "pay-as-you-go" system as the $1.5 trillion is a small
percent of benefit obligations."
FYI,
The Federal Government owes Social Security $1.5 TRILLION!!
|
|
|
|
Post by stetto on Jul 30, 2004 4:20:38 GMT -7
Gee Cley, maybe it's time to consider if the SS system hasn't outlived it's practicality...If the socialist element in this country want to redistribute our incomes anyway, the point of social security would be...??
|
|
|
|
Post by HB on Jul 30, 2004 4:47:59 GMT -7
Gee Stetto, maybe it's time to consider if the CIA system hasn't outlived it's practicality...If the Imperialist element in this country want to steal our incomes anyway, the point of uh oh where was I? ...?? ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by stetto on Jul 30, 2004 4:52:47 GMT -7
...uh oh where was I? ...?? ;D Inquiring minds want to know... ;D |
|
|
|
Post by HB on Jul 30, 2004 5:18:06 GMT -7
I don't know why some people keep talking about "SOCIALISM" That to me is just another buzzword that the propagandists have hung a whole bunch of dirty laundry on... Public Schools are obviously good... Taking care of our elderly is obviously good... Making them pay for it themselves during their productive years is icing on the cake!! heheh Profits for investors that haven't produced anything seem to create a void??  Where these profits come from  |
|
|
|
Post by HB on Jul 30, 2004 5:51:07 GMT -7
Hey let make a machine put 5 dolla in get 10 dolla out.. I thout of it first uh I think |
|
|
|
Post by stetto on Jul 30, 2004 6:01:22 GMT -7
I don't know why some people keep talking about "SOCIALISM" That to me is just another buzzword that the propagandists have hung a whole bunch of dirty laundry on... A spade is a spade is a spade...would you prefer we change the name to daffodil or appotosaurus or crackcheese? Doesn't change what it is, but if you want... Boy that is as subjective a statement as can be made. So they're good where you are? We just moved from a state with the third worst public education system in the country, where school tax levies fund school administration, not education... Again subjective. People in this country at one time had the values and sense of responsibility to care for their own. Now the daffodilist element has spoiled the public into believing that it's not their job... ...So you take out a loan for a car. The bank isn't going to give you the money for free, they want you to pay for the priveledge in the form of interest, and lo & behold, the bank just invested in you!! The bank has to pay investors to use their money to invest in you. This concept works the same way in the stocks and bonds world, with a few differences. The daffodils have trouble with free enterprise too? |
|
|
|
Post by Cablemender on Jul 30, 2004 7:56:05 GMT -7
I kinda like that "crackcheese" term. ;D ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by HB on Jul 31, 2004 3:45:51 GMT -7
So workers pay into a system and get THEIR OWN money back when they're too old to work and that's "socialism"?? But Investors pay into a system and get somebody elses (workers) money back and that's "capitalism"?? TRY IMPERIALISM! let's call it what it is... WORKING for your money and using money for trade is capitalism... Oppressing and Exploiting others is imperialism... And when they (the imperialists) use the government and banks and corporations to oppress and exploit the workers and they steal money from us BWO foreign wars, killing third world people for profits and they keep people stupid so you don't know the better and you even stick up for them well that's sick and perverted!  |
|
|
|
Post by stetto on Jul 31, 2004 4:43:40 GMT -7
Cley, you might just have to go start your own country somewhere...Let us know how it turns out, eh?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cablemender on Jul 31, 2004 4:57:19 GMT -7
Er.. you only get your money back out of the system if you live long enough, or your spouse and minor dependents do, to collect it. Otherwise, that money is distributed to others in the system. Pooling and redistribution of wealth is the very definition of Socialism.
If investing money in the stock market is socialism, then I guess dog or horse track betting must be also, since they all bear a risk. Somehow the definition doesn't seem to work for the guy who takes the risk and loses though.
I had read about these methods of avoiding taxation before, but the best info I've heard was when one of these "pay no taxes" guys was on on a couple different talk shows here locally, and he was doing pretty good until an IRS legal type phoned in and called him on his claims. He cited case after case of the IRS prosecuting people who attempted his "method" of avoiding income taxes, and pointed out that trying to divorce yourself from the federal "system" has other consequences as well. For instance, everything you already paid is forfeited - you get no refund. You are ineligible for ANY government assistance, be it disaster relief following a flood or hurricane, to pensions, retirement plans, educational benefits, even environmental protection. FDIC, that protects any money you have in the bank will no longer apply to you. If you are a veteran, you must forfeit any benefits you derive from that, such as medical or VA benfits. You can't hold a government job, and can't perform contract work for them. Naturally, you can't have a social security number either, and that alone presents a fistful of challenge in today's society. And comes the day your health starts to fail, better hope you saved some of that no-tax income. Hospitals will not be able to deduct any free care they provide you, since you have no SSN.
While there IS a way to jump into that frying pan in legal terms and NOT face penalty, who really wants to be there? You are effectively denouncing your citizenship in all practical terms, and making others pay for the roads you drive on and the industry and technology from which you benefit.
To me, the downside far outweighs the benefit.
|
|
|
|
Post by HB on Jul 31, 2004 5:06:06 GMT -7
I don't know, I'm not the one calling our Social Security system "socialism"... mebbe you should move to south africa Seems that the imperialists are tearing down the "just" social security retirement system in favor of the stock market... Of course those with the most money and political savvy make out like bandito... I don't support welfare coming out of Americas retirement system! I believe that it's a divisive ploy by the imperialists or investors whatever... Heh the wealthy don't even pay ss It's not fair since the fatcats keep people broke and unemployed also... Of course any honest decent co that becomes major successful becomes a target of investors.... The most successful people have owned their cos as individuals... Which co could afford to pay their emoployees better?? A co. with one owner? or a co. with a couple of thousand owners?? ;D |
|
|
|
Post by HB on Jul 31, 2004 5:10:47 GMT -7
Just to mention my post was in response to stetto and Cablemember must have posted just before I did..
|
|
|
|
Post by stetto on Jul 31, 2004 6:31:43 GMT -7
It's not fair since the fatcats keep people broke and unemployed also... This one is interesting...Though "fatcats" exist and prey on those "lower on their foodchain", a lot of percieved "fatcats" worked their way to where they are. If you need a list, you're too far out of the loop to get it anyway. Since 1989, when I left the professional musician thing and entered a more traditional workforce, I've gone from $12,000/year to quite a bit more than that, and my income is growing, due to diligence, work ethic, and sweat. This mantra that the "fatcats" are keeping the working man down is so much  ...Get off your lazy butt and better yourself. If it's for anyone to keep the poor and downtrodden poor and downtrodden, it would be those who push for more taxation to feed, clothe and wipe the butts of the downtrodden. Without the poor the daffodil element has no cause. Case in point: My ex-wife went on welfare in the mid-80s, and was told that the cutoff for her would be three years; that she'd need to become a working contributor to society in that time as she would be cut off from her entitlements. Her welfare office has consistantly found ways around the rules and the woman is still on welfare today...Keeping her on the roles keeps the funding coming in and another caseworker retains employment. Want another example? Try what social services are being thrust into the open arms of illegal aliens in this country... BTW, one of your favorite pres. candidates' wife is in the "fatcats" category... |
|
|
|
Post by Ricfly52 on Jul 31, 2004 14:33:37 GMT -7
Get off your lazy butt and better yourself. Right on Eric, I only have a high school education, and my income is about three times higher than the national average for high school grads. How is this possible. Because I have worked my a$$ off and made something of myself. I am of only average smarts, and couldn't debate my way out of a paper bag in most of these forums, but hard work will win out, if a person gets off their lazy butt and does something. On the other side of the coin I have a lazy crack head sister-in-law, that has been on welfare most of her adult life. I can tell you that it is only because of fricking laziness. And hard working folks, have to have part of their incomes support her, and millions like her. Makes me sick. |
|
|
|
Post by Cablemender on Jul 31, 2004 15:23:16 GMT -7
I am of only average smarts, and couldn't debate my way out of a paper bag in most of these forums I think you do a great job! |
|
|
|
Post by stetto on Jul 31, 2004 16:14:33 GMT -7
Yeah man, my below average smarts don't stop me any...  I'm your stereotypical housepainting contractor, breathing the fumes of success on a daily basis. The brain cell I reserve for these forums parties all night and is rarely available when I need it.... You are a fine debator, ricfly! |
|
|
|
Post by HB on Aug 4, 2004 9:18:56 GMT -7
About Social Security, "The excess is borrowed by the U.S. Treasury, which in turn issues special-issue Treasury bonds to Social Security. These bonds totaled $1.5 trillion at the beginning of 2004, " ----------------------------------------------------------------------- So how much does the Federal Government owe Social Security in terms that even "average smarts" guys can understand?? According to my calculation about $6,000 for each and every man woman and child citizen of the United States of America.... |
|
|
|
Post by HB on Aug 5, 2004 14:39:07 GMT -7
So workin man pays Social Security... Social Security money is given to recipients, some deserving, some not... Social Security recipients spend their money to live... Money then goes to rich folks as corporate profits..... Looks like a redistribution of wealth alright.. 15% of all wages  Workin man fights for taxcuts for the wealthy |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Aug 5, 2004 15:12:50 GMT -7
Road taxes, gas taxes,etc. are the taxes to build roads. Income taxes are to pay the interest on the national debt. They go to an off shore trust owned by a private corporation. THEY DO NOTHING FOR THE TAX PAYERS!!! Check our www.imfdecoder.com/easy Everyone should pay the taxes they owe. They should not be lied to and forced to pay taxes they don't owe. |
|
I'm your stereotypical housepainting contractor, breathing the fumes of success on a daily basis. The brain cell I reserve for these forums parties all night and is rarely available when I need it....
