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Post by DickFowler on Sept 28, 2004 7:55:53 GMT -7
Just stopped by a few days ago and read some of the threads. Seems to me that in most cases everyone has and is expressing their opinions without being subjected to personal attacks which are so common at SSW. Very impressive - maybe we can learn to play together.
I'd love to have a place where controversial subjects can be openly discussed and the rebuttals are directed at the subject matter and not the participant.
Kudos To All !
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Post by dirtydan on Sept 28, 2004 11:58:46 GMT -7
Dick,
Yes, it does seem to be a place where we can simply discuss issues in a calmer environment. That may be due to this site be rather lightly populated; hopefully newbies will be able to pick up on this and continue in kind.
I do feel need to mention that in my view the phrase "personal attack" has been distorted significantly in recent years, although not necessarily by you.
As an example without a link to actual SSW thread--which no longer exists, come to think about it--I got a lot of heat for comments related to Allen Brickhaus. Some of this was deserved, as there was no real reason to drag a separate issue into a discussion of "that" ARF survey in Stunt News. And I apologized for doing so, on SSW, with an actual letter to Mr. Brickhaus, this followed up by a phone call which was somewhat less than satisfying to both parties.
However, and it's a big one, I was criticizing Allen's work product, not him personally. I am a consumer of Flying Models magazine. Thus I am a consumer when it comes to the column on CL Stunt.
All of us have been known to criticize and/or evaluate the work product of others. It need not be personal; in fact, rarely is this the case.
As I recently mentioned someplace else, referring to a man's wife as "wide ride," that's personal. Poking fun at his lack of hair, me for example, is personal although not upsetting in any way as it is also factual.
Seriously disagreeing with another individual, and being explicit about it while keeping the tone conversational can hardly be referred to as a personal attack, although I have seen it done repeatedly. By folk other than Mr. Fowler, just so we don't our shorts in a wad here...
Insert those loathed smiley-face icons of your choice.
Dan
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round1
New arrival
I once flew inverted, now I stand on my feet.
Posts: 4
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Post by round1 on Sept 28, 2004 14:45:27 GMT -7
Dan Keep on keeping on. Love your stuff and past help. Ex- hiflyer. I think your kinder, really
Jerry
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Frank
New arrival
To Chicken to Fly Over Asphalt
Posts: 12
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Post by Frank on Sept 29, 2004 7:47:15 GMT -7
Daniel,
How can anyone who knows about Greeves, Triumph, Swinging arm's, Front Forks, etc be such a bad guy (as purported by some on SSW). A man with this knowledge is always a superior, to a man without it.
Please continue with your input. (smiley with perplexed look inserted here).
Regards Frank
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Post by TreeTopFlyer on Sept 29, 2004 11:21:16 GMT -7
Dick,
I suspect you're right. Maybe it's the colors. Darker and more soothing.
On the other hand, I also don't understand why we can't just discuss: BOM, Appearence Points, FP20 or whatever without rancor or heated comments. They are, after all just topics to discuss. It's interesting that some take this stuff like life and death.
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Post by StuntMaster on Sept 29, 2004 17:55:21 GMT -7
Well Dick...
To some extent I'm with you on this one.
We should be able to discuss these issues rationally but some of us, who have been involved in the event for many years, are not only well versed in the mechanics and history of the event but are also quite passionate in our beliefs about how things should be done.
Many of these arguments go back a long, long way and I'm not sure whether we have survived because of hard work and good intentions were simply by accident. The fact is, stunt has survived with few changes since its creation.
Now we are faced with some choices as to whether we are going to tamper with the system as it exists right now or make changes, without knowing in advance what the ultimate outcome will be.
It's a tough decision.
The problem with trying to hash these things out in cyberspace is that many people who are perfectly sane, rational, nice guys, turn into completely out of control *%$#%@s once they get hold of a computer.
I've seen this happen over and over and no doubt you've seen it too. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that in cyberspace we don't get to see the other person face-to-face. It's hard to tell when someone is telling a joke or not. It's almost impossible to deal with someone who employs sarcasm as a communication gambit.
The sooner or later someone's feelings get hurt, or they feel unheard, or they think they been insulted, or they think the other guys an idiot. Then the mudslinging starts, old animosities and misunderstandings come to the surface and all goes to Hell in a handcart.
This has happened any number of times on Len's board and I guarantee you, if enough people come over here, the same thing will happen again.
Most of us live in a world where we have to keep the least desirable aspects of our character under control. We can't dump our crap into our families and we don't dare take it to work, much less to a local bar where someone might punch us in the nose. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have no compulsion about bringing their unfinished emotional business to the flying field and onto the chat boards.
Most of us started out in model aviation as children and there remains a tendency for many to act like children where our hobby is concerned.
There's your answer!
SM
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Post by TreeTopFlyer on Sept 30, 2004 17:01:55 GMT -7
SM,
>> It's hard to tell when someone is telling a joke or not.<<
Heck, I can't tell when Dan is telling a joke when I'm standing in front of him.
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Post by faif2d on Sept 30, 2004 17:25:14 GMT -7
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Post by Garf on Sept 30, 2004 21:19:11 GMT -7
It's my job to keep things relatively civilized here. Even thou I don't like to do it, I have the power to erase threads and ban people. If you remember Flightlines, you will know I put up with a lot before I take action, but I will if I feel it necessary.
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Post by dirtydan on Oct 1, 2004 13:00:36 GMT -7
Although many might not have known it I think it was a joke when DD called me a "pencil necked melon farmer". He should know that although I have grown much corn, oats and soy beans in my life I have never grown any melons, that was the neighbor.
I love smileys!
While the attribution is correct, the quote is not. I believe I called you a "white-cracker melon farmer." A pencil neck sort of insult would be "pencil-necked geek."
Steve, you and I know full well it was a joke, no matter the actual words making up the "insult." That others might not have understood really is of little concern to me...
...because I will not--or only rarely--use those smiley-face icons!
Dan
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Post by Britbrat on Oct 1, 2004 13:29:17 GMT -7
Just to keep Garf from feeling too all-powerfull up there, "Senior supervising incedent inspector" should be "Senior Supervising Incident Inspector". This is not a personal attack, but rather, a well-meant critique of his literacy. ;D Fortunately, being the gentleman that he is, he will take it in the proper vein (right arm, or left?) & correct the offending mistake.
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Post by StuntMaster on Oct 1, 2004 14:55:48 GMT -7
Dirt,
I really want to commend you for what appears to be a new or different approach to how you communicate on the boards. These days, most of the things that you write read more like discussions/opinions rather than angry rants.
I, for one, have had a bit of difficulty from time to time, understanding when you were telling a joke and when you are not. Though we have not met, I know that you have some interesting and insightful things to say that could be helpful to all of us. Unfortunately, they have frequently gotten lost through poor presentation and that's a shame.
Len didn't get on your case about the OS 20 postings because the thread went on so long. He got pissed off at your seemingly unnecessary need to defend your work repeatedly and in an unacceptable manner.
I understand your frustration with Alan Brickhaus and his work in Flying Models Magazine. I've met the man and know that he is a likable, nice guy and a dedicated modeler. If I were considering the purchase of a house next door to his, I'm sure that we could be great neighbors. Unfortunately, I find his contributions to FM a real snore. Of all the people who could have been chosen for his position...
My personal approach to personal attacks, is to ignore them until I feel as if I can respond without rancor. Then I try to deal with an individual one-to-one and iron things out. Most 'attackers' don't feel as if that's what they're doing anyway.
The others, I just gun down at the Safeway.
Anyway, keep up the good work and remember, everyone who comes here is a consumer. We may not be paying with money but we are paying with our time and attention!
SM
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Post by faif2d on Oct 1, 2004 15:50:33 GMT -7
That's what I get for not going over to SSW and getting the quote correct. I stand corrected. I guess that many do not know that , although we have never met, we can kid a lot and know that it is a joke. I apologize to Garf "it was a joke", a touch to inside I suppose but one never the less. I am sorry that you do not understand smilies but they don't have a sarcastic one or does this work??  |
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Post by Garf on Oct 1, 2004 21:36:10 GMT -7
Guess what. I didn't write that. The webmaster did. I will be happy to pass your commentary on to "JetMex", the webmaster.
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Post by Garf on Oct 1, 2004 21:45:37 GMT -7
A couple of more points:
1-I never claimed I could spell
2-I don't have a sense of humor
3-I am no gentelman.
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Post by DickFowler on Oct 2, 2004 5:03:56 GMT -7
Gee... Garf, seems to me you have all of the qualifications to be a successful SSII
Does this mean no to my thread? ;D
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Post by Garf on Oct 2, 2004 15:01:35 GMT -7
I have no problems with contravercial subjects. However, nasty people will be dealt with accordingly.
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Post by Britbrat on Oct 2, 2004 18:12:19 GMT -7
Sounds like a good combo for an administrator.
What ever became of Garfly?
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Post by Garf on Oct 2, 2004 18:39:07 GMT -7
I'm trying very hard to ignore it.
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Post by minnesotamodeler on Oct 3, 2004 5:21:08 GMT -7
I have no problems with contravercial subjects. However, nasty people will be dealt with accordingly. Controversial...not that I mean to start a controversy! |
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