So Where Are The...

[stetto]

...Extreme maniacal political knowitalls? I'm waiting to find out what great manipulated fact-and-statistic will be thrown into the sweat pit first...I can't think of any new issues that aren't redress of the good old "Cheney thissed" and "GW Thatted" or "Clinton Wassed".

I'm all-a-twitter to watch the show, so anytime fellas!!!

[MrRepublican]

So far, this appears to be a liberal-free zone.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

[RetNavySuppo]

;)Ah, new board, but the same generalizations from Mr. R. I guess he has forgotten that some of the members here have held some decidedly un-conservative positions, DEPENDING ON THE SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED.

Not everyone can, or wants to be, a conservative "purist" like Mr. R. Mind you, this is not a ping on Mr. R. At least he is a true believer, not a panderer. (See Mr. R, I do say nice things about you, sometimes.)

If you want to see political pandering on the other hand, you should watch the political ads down here for the Republican race for the House. We have three self-proclaimed "conservatives" trying to "out-conservative" each other. The mudslinging is so bad that I have to wipe off the TV after each ad. I thought conservative values were supposed to encompass dignity, honesty and straight talk. Not down here. Democrats down here are behaving themselves somewhat better - relatively minor pokes at each other rather than "b!tch-slapping" each other like the Republicans. Maybe it is different in other races somewhere else in the country.

[MadWags]

Maybe you guys need the UN to oversee things down there.

[stetto]

Hey RetNav, outstanding to see you here!

I also like that most who are showing up here in the backwater are keeping familiar usernames...

I also think it unfortunate that there were some at FL who demanded anonymity and hid their email addies from the world, they may never know the elation of finding that a still beating heart from Flightlines has been set up on the web....

[Cablemender]

Well how 'bout that Sandy Burglar guy, the former National Security Advisor, stuffing classified intelligence documents in his coat and his pockets at the National Archives? I wonder what would be above the fold on the front page of the NY Times if Condy Rice did something like that?

I wonder if he still has a [glow=red,2,300]security clearance[/glow] after that? Guarantee you if some military person did that he'd be eating his lunch off a plastic tray right about now.

[ctdahle]

Kind of a bizarre incident. Apparently he stuck the documents down his pants.

Weirdest thing of all is that apparently he had one document and then asked for another copy of the same document because the first one was at his house or something.

Sounds more like criminal stupidity than criminal intent, but then, stupidity is what catches most criminals.

[RetNavySuppo]

Hey MadWags, you might be right. We just might need some sort of "peacekeepers" in that House race.

This week they are flat out calling each other liars. I figure in a couple weeks they will be accusing each other of actually performing abortions themselves while practicing bestiality with homosexual animals.

You know, at first it was just humorous. Now it is just plain embarrassing. So much for Georgia genteelness and civility.

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

I have 3 lines of thought on the Berger investigation.

1 -He really is that stupid and bumbling

2 -He thinks we are that stupid to believe he is that stupid and bumbling

3 -He was keeping info from this admin to take to his possible new job with a new admin or at the least hamper the incoming Republicans. I thought this was a little far fetched until you look back on recent history of some political animals.


Timing of this coming out is interesting too, considering its been an ongoing investigation for months. I really hate election years.

[Cablemender]

I could understand if he had notes and documents, and somehow in the shuffle he got some of Pile A in with Pile B, then accidentally walked out with B containing a couple A's. That's one thing.

But if this is all a big case of sloppiness and misunderstanding, etc., then it should be a matter easy to resolve.. bring the whole pile back and let the Nat. Archive folks pour through it and take back what's theirs.

BUT.. oops, he "inadvertently" disposed of them. Imagine that? A Clinonite who can't find documents and might have disposed of them. Where have we heard THAT before?

There were additional accidents here that this guy's apologist figure people will never take the time to learn. If you've ever gone to the NARA (National Archives) and researched there, you'd find out in a hurry that there is little chance that someone could just "accidentally" walk out with documents, even unclassified ones. Now I'm sure Berger's status allowed for some waiver of routine rules like using pencil only and cotton gloves for examining anything actually penned onto paper. But they are strict as hell about not getting the documents out of the order they gave them to you in, and if you're so important that you're above this, they usually provide you your own NARA assistant who'll reorder them for you. This business about mixing stuff up in the shuffle is being served to you by the large snowshovel full.

If you make ANY notes or copies of anything classified, you can only do so on paper that is pre-stamped with the proper classification on it. Again, I'm sure Berger got to write in his leather portfolio, but those weren't supposed to leave without being reviewed for classification. Even some Congressmen have had document notes taken from them, and they could only get them back with the classification stamp and an inventory of what they carried out.

So use common sense here.. this guy knew the rules, he knew the routine. He had a briefcase (which you and I are not allowed to take in there) that he knew would be searched. Why else would he stand up and stuff papers in his pants, shirt, and allegedly his socks unless it was intention to circumvent the security? If everything was so innocent, he could have used the briefcase or asked for a box if it was full.

The only thing full is Berger.. full OF it.

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

Thats kind of what I am thinking too if he had some documents stuffed down his pants, it really brings into question the whole bumbling idiot defence.

This is the national security advisor covertly removing classified documents. I wonder how that would play in the press if it was Condi who did that.

[JohnC]

If politicians were smart, we wouldn't hear about another screwup by any of them or their lackeys; They'd start practicing what the Constitution says.

Unfortunately, they seem intent on demonstrating just the opposite, which will prove to be quite entertaining to some and embarassing to others.

It does get pretty discouraging to think these idiots are the only ones who want to govern us... and most definitely doesn't make us look any better in the eyes of our fellow humans, no matter where they live! JohnC

[MrRepublican]

Eric said:

...if he had some documents stuffed down his pants, it really brings into question the whole bumbling idiot defence.

This is the national security advisor covertly removing classified documents. I wonder how that would play in the press if it was Condi who did that.

And then WJC hits the interview circuit to make jest of it in a blatant attempt to create a smokescreen to blind the electoral middle, and to keep the loyal lefties from bolting as a result of this glaring breach of national security.

While this exemplifies the pathetic nature of the national security situation under the Clinton administration, it is becoming more and more evident that this is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the ethics of not only that administration, but the DNC's methods to try to maintain its grip on what power it still has left. And of course the DNC's lackies in the liberal press are all too willing to go along with it.

Are we supposed to take his word for it that after he removed these documents and took them home that he did not make copies of these documents and distribute them to God knows who !?!?

This calls for a congressional investigation into Mr. Berger's activities as national security advisor.

I think it should be called CLINTON-NSA-gate.

[Galvin]

I don't belive the part about stuffing documents down his pants and in his socks. The only place I have heard this story repeated is on the conservative talk shows and it seems to be getting more embellished as time goes by. The original reference to this act is based on a hearsay story from someone who can hardly be described as impartial.

Having had a researcher's card for the National Archives since 1988 and being a little familiar with some of its workings I am hard put to believe he would get away with such a maneuver, especially in the kind of secure room in which documents having any kind of classified status are reviewed. That he did manage to take copies of a memo he himself wrote when National Security Adviser in the Clinton administration home in a briefcase is not in question. And the fact that he also broke the rules by taking his own handwritten notes, made at the time he was in the Natn'l Archieves secure room, home with him is also a fact. Removal of classified document copies and/or making handwritten notes of them are both big no-nos for obvious reasons.

Another thing. I have been hearing shouts of a conspiracy by him and several unknown but sometimes strongly hinted at parties to remove and destroy the origianals of these documents for some nefarious purpose. In the first place, unless the document is historical, the ones viewed are copies. I have heard that the originals aren't even kept there but at a far more secure location so any attempt at removing any trace of them is going to be far more complicated than merely shoving them down one's pants and then inadvertently using them to line the bottom of the parakeet's cage.

I think that he just wanted to refresh his memory on things he himself wrote for the purpose of being adequately prepared to testify before the 911 inquiry board. That he had the hubris to think he was above the law and could take them home to peruse at his leasure is the continuation of a long U. S. tradition regarding the treatment classified documents by those who consider themselves too important to follow the rules.

He also got caught and the hearing on his transgressions was back in September of LAST YEAR. How many wonder why it has just now amazingly resurfaced in time for the presidential race?

He screwed up. He is going to have to pay the price. But the conpiracy theories on coservative talk radio regarding this essentially old news have long past the sh!t squared stage and are well into the sh!t cubed numbers and may even go even more exponential. It plans on being a fun year.

I had a confidential clearance and was up for a secret one at the Rocketdyne Propulsion Flight Laboratory back when I worked there but wound up quitting to go fly before it came through. I remember a sign hung on a supervisor's "secret file" cabinet that stuck in my mind all these years.

It said "Are you leading a dull life? Want to meet a lot of people? Just try leaving this cabinet unlocked.

See, it still works.

[MrRepublican]

MrRepublican said:

So far, this appears to be a liberal-free zone....

(sigh) I spoke too soon.

[Cablemender]

I never heard about Berger stealing documents last year.. did anyone else? I certainly never heard of him destroying what the National Archive staff has said were the only copies of the documents he took with him in addition to the notes he made.

I don't believe the theory that the RNC ratted him out to negate the DNC convention news, because there is little connection for one to dispell the other. The right time for that revelation would have been right after Kerry made his remarks about "Foreign leaders" telling him they hoped for a change in President, because Berger is the guy, or was, who was advising him on foreign affairs. That would have been the opportune time to squish Berger, not now. It would also have made it virtually impossible for the 9-11 Commission to take anything he said seriously. By waiting until after his testimony was taken and noted in the report, the RNC would have missed a prime opportunity.

Aside from all that, there is no proof this was even leaked by the RNC, we only have Terry MacCauliffe's word for it, and that's useless as a rubber nickel.

The allegation of Berger stuffing his documents down his pants came from at least two independent witnesses at the National Archives. One of them even went on to say how Berger encouraged him to look the other way while he violated rules. According to the story I read, which wasn't on talk radio or a republican blog, it said the NA staff set up a type of surveillance on Berger and that is how the witnesses came to see him stuff the documents in his clothing. I read they went into his jacket, into his trouser pockets, and possibly in the hem of his pants where you'd tuck a shirt. Regardless of location, he took them and destroyed them. He should lose all ability to see or touch classified info ever again for that kind of aggregious action.

Oh, and if this guy had such a propensity to being sloppy with paperwork, then why on earth did Clinton send him there? Or why was he allowed free reign over documents if he couldn't ever keep his desk clean?

[Galvin]

( :-/sigh) I spoke too soon. Yep, you sure did.

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if everyone would just come to their senses and just realize that the conservative point of view is the ONLY point of view. Then we could all sit around and agree on everything and have a conservative love fest.

Having other points of view is so, well, inconvenient, isn't it. Forces you to think and defend your theses and all that difficult stuff that makes your head hurt when you try to sort it out. Worse, it impedes the unconditional acceptance of the offcial ideology (now pre-packaged for easier distribution). Those holding other points of view sound pretty subversive to me. They don't agree with me so they must hate America.

[MadWags]

What are you mumbling about?
Do I hear jibber jabber from the left?
;D

[stetto]

Wags, I like to call it the "inserting guilt and shame" tactic. It's akin to the tactic of dismissing information equally as reliable as ones own regardless of authenticity, simply because it argues against their beliefs or politics...

I don't think that there would have been any time that the Burger scandal could become public that someone wouldn't find to be "suspiciously convenient timing"...

[Grug - American Neanderthal]

Heh, well after thinking about the timing thing I cam to the conclusion the only way it would ever be considered to not be "conviently timed" to announce it would be years after when another administration that had no connection what so ever with any of the current participants. Unfortunately this countries security can't afford to woory over hurt feelings.

And as for the comment of right wing extemists only saying he had them down his pants? I heard it on the bastion of rightwing conservatism NPR the other day myself.